13. Not the right William Brown (died 1870)

William Brown
Certified copy of the death entry doesn't give enough information to clarify if this William Brown is the William Brown born Luton c1797 and married to Elizabeth Collins. While the age of the person corresponds (roughly), the occupation as master grocer doesn't, the location of the death, Holywell Hill while close to Dagnall Lane is not the same and the informant is not his wife Elizabeth Brown.  However the only evidence that Elizabeth Brown was alive in 1870/1 is a census record for an Elizabeth Brown born in Hemel Hempstead c1787, which might not be the same person as was married to William Brown.

Key information from the Death entry
When and where died; 15 February 1870, Holywell Hill St Albans
Age; 73 years
Occupation; Grocer Master
Cause of death; Bronchitis 6 weeks
Signature, description and residence of informant; The mark of Lydia Edwards present at the death. Sopwell Lane St Albans

Richard Brown
The certified copy of the death entry for this Richard Brown does provide enough information to indicate that it is not Richard Brown married to Harriet Gooch.  While the age is correct, the occupation is not and the daughters name is not.

Key information from the Death entry
When and where died; 21 July 1885, Lattimore Road St Peters St Albans
Age; 54 years
Occupation; Veterinary Surgeon
Cause of death; Spasms of the heart
Signature, Sarah Gertrude Brown, daughter, present at death. Lattimore Rd St Peters St Albans

12. A Possible Family for Robert Brown (cousin of Richard Walter Brown?) cont/ of blog entry 10

A search of the IGI father William Brown, mother Sarah, birthplace Abbey, St Albans, comes up with an interesting set of names and dates. All the dates are baptism dates
31 Mar 1820 Sarah Elizabeth
10 Aug 1821 Charles William
26 Dec 1831 Henry
26 Dec 1831 William Henry
26 Dec 1831 Robert Arthur
26 Dec 1831 Cicerly Sarah
26 Dec 1831 Louise Caroline

Yes all have the baptism date 26 Dec
I wonder if this is a cousin of Richard Walter Brown?

11. Walter Henry Brown born 1858 St Albans Hertfordshire

Walter Henry Brown almost disappeared from family memory.  Eddie (Frederick Edison) Brown mentioned in passing that his father had a brother who died when he was young.  That small glint linked to the death certificate.  As Walter was single, the information on the certificate would have come from his brother Frederick (Eddie’s father).

1915 Death Walter Henry Brown

Name              Date                         Location

Walter Henry   26/1/1915 (age 57)   153 A’Beckett St Melbourne

Occupation     Married                   Children

Labourer          Unmarr                     Nil

Parents             Richard Henry Brown, Baker Harriet Brown nee Gooch

Cause              Fibroid disease of the lungs, cardiac dilation of the heart.  Post mortem held by Dr Mollison 27/1/1915 no inquest requird

Residence of Informant G Millar Const 5624 Bourke St Police Station

Where buried   Springvale

Born                England 13 years in Victoria (c1902)

 

Information on his birth confirmed the basic details. 

 

1858 Birth Details Walter Henry Brown

Name              Christening Date     Location

Walter Henry   11 AUG 1858           Abbey, Saint Albans, Hertford, England

Father Richard Walter Brown (Baker), Mother Harriet Brown

And while the immigration record proved more difficult (nothing relevant comes up on the Inward Shipping Index), there is an entry on the outwards shipping:

Emigration

Walter Brown Depart London 27 May 1902 to Melbourne aged 41, Baker (forgot to note down the ship).  Birth date is a bit out (as birth certificate is 1858 and makes would make Walter 44). I haven't found any record of immigration to Melbourne.

However understanding the information between these records is more difficult

I couldn’t find any thing on the voter’s roll.  But Census has some information that may be relevant (but it is problematic because it brings together the Richard Brown and Robert Brown confusion).

1861 Census Richard Walter and Harriet Brown Household

Address New England Field St Albans

Name          Status                Occupation                 Age        Birthplace

Richard       Head                  Baker                          29          Hemel Hempstead Hertfordshire

Harriet        Wife                  Straw Bonnet Maker   25          St Albans Hertfordshire

Henry         Son                    Scholar                        2            St Albans Hertfordshire

Emma Neale  (unmrr)           Lodger                        Straw Bonnet Maker        28        Wheathampstead Hertfordshire

1871 Census

Brown Family
Schedule Type Household
Registration District Poplar
Sub-District Poplar
Parish Poplar
County London, Middlesex
Father Richard W Brown, age 32, born Hampshire. Mother Francis Brown, age 35, born Herefordshire. Son  Walter H Brown, age 13, born Herefordshire. Son Horace Brown, age 6, born Herefordshire. Son Frederick Brown, age 4, born Herefordshire. Dau Kate Brown, age under 1, born Poplar.
This information from Familysearch.org index.  Looking at the digitised record on Ancestry.com, the script is very poor and hard to read.  For Richard W the birth place looks closer to Herefordshire or maybe Hertfordshire.  All the other mentions of birth place are "do" that is same as above (except for Kate which is clearly Poplar).  Mother "Francis" could be Harriet poorly written.

 

1881 Census

Address 105 High Street Poplar London, Middlesex, England 

Name                   Status       Occupation              Age        Birthplace

Robert                  Head         Journeyman Baker    49          (1832)St Albans Hertfordshire

Harriet                Wife                                          45          (1836)St Albans Hertfordshire

Frederick (unmarr)                Son                           Plasterer 17            (1864)St Albans Hertfordshire

Martin (unmar)     Son           Baker                        21          (1860)St Albans Hertfordshire

Kate                     Dau          Scholar                     11          (1870)St Albans Hertfordshire

Lottie                   Dau          Scholar                     7            (1874)St Albans Hertfordshire

1891 Census

I haven't found anything for this census

1901 Census

Address 41 Ettrick Street Poplar London, Middlesex, England (3 rooms)

Name                   Status       Occupation              Age        Birthplace

Harriet                  Wid                                           64          (1837)St Albans Hertfordshire

Walter (unmarr)   Son           (s)BreadworkerBaker              42           (1859)St Albans Hertfordshire

Kate (unmar)        Dau          (s)Forewomen confectioner30    (1871) Poplar London

plus three boarders (cooper and to gas stokers)

1911 Census

Address 41 Ettrick Street Poplar London, Middlesex, England (3 rooms)

Name                   Status       Occupation              Age        Birthplace

Harriet                  Wid          Old age pensioner     74 (1837)   St Albans Hertfordshire (for the last three years paralysis)

Kate                     (unmarr) Dau                             Boys trouser machinists (wkr)       42 (1869)Poplar London

plus one boarder

Here is Your Problem

If Robert and Richard Brown are two different people there are many coincidences.  Both with similar though slightly different ages, birth locations, both having the same trade, both marrying women call Harriet and both having (some) with the same name and roughly the same ages. 

There is a Robert Arthur Brown bapt 26/12/1832 St Albans Hertfordshire, parents William and Sarah.

Walter Brown living with his mother and sister in Poplar in 1901 looks like the child of Robert Brown (location, sister Kate), but emigrates to Melbourne and is identified at death as being the son of Richard and Harriet Brown.

 

 

10. Robert Brown (see blog entry 12 for more detail)

Only marginally closer to unravelling this problem. The IGI identifies a few options.
Search.
Parents William and Sarah Brown
Children christened Abbey St Albans
Sarah Elizabeth 31 Mar 1820
Charles William 10 Aug 1821
Henry 26 Dec 1832
William Henry 26 Dec 1832
Robert Arthur 26 Dec 1832
Cicerly Sarah 26 Dec 1832
Louisa Caroline 26 Dec 1832

There are many other children of various William and Sarah Brown's for Herts, but these the ones for St Albans.

It is almost impossible that all the children were born in 1832. More likely that for some reason the parents didn't christen when first born, but for some reason held off until 1832. Indicative of Baptists?

Is William,  the William Brown buried 4 Nov 1833 aged 36 (Baptist) St Albans?
Is Robert Arthur, the Robert Brown of High street Poplar married to Harriet 1881 Census?

9. Confused about William Brown? Well so am I

It is an interesting challenge unravelling the Browns of Bedfordshire/Hertfordshire.

Birth Dates
Two William Brown's christened St Mary Luton Bedfordshire
1) 5 May 1793 Parents Richard and Sarah Brown
2) 28 Sep 1793 Parents James and Elizabeth Brown

William Brown father of Richard Brown is identified as being born in Luton.  But there are varying potential dates for his birth:
1796 (1841 Census)
1791 (1851 Census)
1792 (1861 Census)
1797 (Death record)

Two Death Records
Two William Brown's died St Albans
1) 4 Nov 1833 aged 36 (c1797) Place of Burial St Albans. Dedication Dagnall Lane (Baptist)
2) 20 February 1870 aged 73 (c1797), Place of Burial St Albans [see later blog entry for more on William Brown died 1870].

The census records have William and Elizabeth (Eliza) resident Dagnall Lane 1841, 1851 (then 1861 Spicer St, then Elizabeth widow in 1871).

The William and Elizabeth Brown of the 184/51/61 etc census' are living in Hemel Hempstead until at least 1832 as that is where their son Richard (great great grandfather) was born. 

So a William Brown dies in Dagnall Lane St Albans in 1833.  Soon after (1833-41) another William Brown moves to the St Albans and ends up living in Dagnall Lane.

Both are bakers by trade.

Richard Brown and Robert Brown
1830 Richard Brown baptised 26 Jan 1830 Hemel Hempstead, Father William, Mother Elizabeth.
1832 Robert Brown baptised 26 Dec 1832 St Albans, Father William, Mother Sarah

So Richard and Robert Brown both have fathers William.

8. Sketch Tree Brown Family

7. Swain Family

This connection is tentative and is based on likely connections (ie not to be trusted without further research).  Evidence is not clear what William’s parents names were and when this is available then some further research is possible.

1673 Marriage George Swain and Marie Woodward

Groom George Swain, Bride Marie Woodward, Ridgmont Bedfordshire 22 Apr 1673

Lots of options for Mary Woodward birth.

1681 Birth Details George Swain

Father George Swain Mother Mary Christened 1 Jan 1681 Flitwick Bedford, England

1720/2 Birth Details George Swain

Father George Swain, Mother Mary, Christening 3 Mar 1720, Flitwick Bedfordshire

Or

Father George Swain, Mother Mary, Christening 15 Oct 1722, Flitwick Bedfordshire

1760 Marriage George Swain or Swane and Elizabeth Farrar

Groom George Swain or Swane, Bride Elizabeth Farrar 15 Oct 1760, Flitwick Bedfordshire

A number of options for Elizabeth Farrer born in Bedfordshire 1735-1745.

1764 Birth Details Sarah Swain

Father George Swain Mother Elizabeth, Christening  22 Jan 1764, Flitwick Bedfordshire

This is the only Sarah Swain of Bedford in the IGI for the years 1755-65.  Would make her 16-17 when married.

6. George Gooch

1841 Census George and Charlotte Gooch Household

Residence t Back St St Albans Hertfordshire

Name                             Status                  Occupation                Age            Birthplace

George                           Head                    Gunmaker                     30 or 36    Not in Hert

Charlotte                                                                                          36              Not in Hert

1845 3 September Marriage Sarah Brown and George Gooch

Groom George Gooch Gunmaker Father William Gooch, Bride Sarah Brown Father William Brown

1851 Census George and Sarah Gooch

165 Back St St Albans

Name                             Status                  Occupation                Age            Birthplace

George                           M Head                Gunmaker                     45               Ipswich Suffolk

Sarah                              F Wife                                                       31               Hemel Hempstead

George                           M Son                                                        3                 St Albans

William                          M Son                                                        2                St Albans

Ellen                               F Dau                                                        5mo            St Albans

Elizabeth Ansell             F                          House Servant              18                St Albans

1861 Census George and Sarah Gooch

9 Back St St Albans

Name                             Status                  Occupation                Age            Birthplace

George                           M Head               Gunmaker                      53              Ipswich Suffolk

Sarah                              F Wife                                                       41              Hemel Hempstead

George                           M Son                                                        13              Scholar    St Albans

Ellen                               F Dau                                                        10              Scholar    St Albans

Julia H                            F Dau                                                         9               Scholar    St Albans

Martha Davis                 F                           House Servant              22              Somerset

1861 Death Sarah Gooch

Hertford Mercury and Reformer

Saturday 21 March 1868

Sudden Death

An inquest was held on Wednesday last, at the Town Hall, St. Albans before R.G. Lowe, Esq., coroner, on view of the body of Mrs. Sarah Gooch, aged 49, wife of Mr. George Gooch, gunsmith of St. Albans, who died suddenly on the previous evening. The deceased had ben to a friends house to tea and on setting out for home on St. Peters-street, she complained of her breath and stopped several times. When she got as far as Mr.Nightingales she said she could not go any further, and went into the house She gasped for breath several times and wished a surgeon to be sent for. Mr. Russell was sent for, and on his arrival she got up, held her arms out, and then sank back in a chair and died. Dr. Russell said he had attended the deceased for some years. She had had several attacks of bronchitis, but last week appeared very well. When he was sent for to Mr. Nightingales he felt her pulse, and it beat three or four times, and immediately afterwards she died. He believed that coming out of a warm room into the cold air, produced temporary congestion of the lungs, which impeded the circulation and caused the hearts action to stop. The jury found that deceased had died from natural causes.

1871 Census George Gooch

80 French Row St Albans

Name                             Status                  Occupation                Age            Birthplace

George                           M Head                Gun manufacturer       63              St Albans

George                           M Son                  Gun manufacturer       23              St Albans

Ellen                               F Dau                  Housekeeper               20              St Albans

Lulia H                           F Dau                  Strawhat mafacturer   18              St Albans

Eliza English                  F                          Domestic Servant       15              St Albans

Charles Carden              M                         Visitor                         23              St Albans

1873 Marriage George Gooch and Mary Ann Howe

22/9/1873 Marriage

Groom George Gooch Gunmaker,  Father George Gooch Gunmaker

Bride Mary Ann Howe Father Richard Howe Licensed Victualler

1881 Census George and Mary Ann Gooch

St Peter St St Albans

Name                             Status                  Occupation                Age            Birthplace

George                           M Head              Gunmaker                      35               St Albans

Mary H                          F Wife                                                       32               Luton

George                           M Son                                                       5                 St Albans

Richard                          M Son                                                       2                 St Albans

Rosa                               F Dau                                                        1                 St Albans

Emily                             F Dau                                                        6                 St Albans

Hannah Dear                 F                           Servant                         26               Luton

Note George Gooch and Brown Family

So it appears that:

Sarah Brown (b 1821) dau of William and Elizabeth Brown marries George Gooch (b 1806 or 1808) in 1841

Richard Walter Brown (b 1830) marries Harriet Gooch (b 1835) in 1857.  Harriet is the dau of Henry Gooch (b1816)

Questions are:

How are George and Henry Gooch related?  Cousins or brothers.

Why is Henry identified as being born in Canterbury and George in Ipswich?

 

5. Gooch Family (1)

Family of Henry and Harriet Gooch

2.1.  1831 Marriage Catharine Howell and Henry Gooch

“I can confirm that Catherine Howell married Henry Gooch (gunsmith) in St Albans Abbey 14/12/1831 Witnesses were Ann Dirton, John Nott & Thos. Brown.”

 

2.2.  1835 Emma Gooch Birth

Emma b.21/4/1835 and Sarah Ann b.18/11/1843 were baptised 31/7/1844.

 

2.3.  1835 Harriet Gooch Birth

Father Henry Gooch Mother Catherine Birth13 DEC 1835, Saint Peter, Saint Albans, Hertford, England

 

2.4.  1841 Census Henry and Catherine Gooch Household

Residence St Peters St St Albans Hertfordshire

Name                             Status                  Occupation                Age            Birthplace

Henry                             Head                   Gunmaker                    25                 Not in Hertfordshire

Catherine                                                    ?? maker                     25                 Not in Hertfordshire

Georgina                                                                                          9                 Hertfordshire

Harriot                                                                                             6                 Hertfordshire

Emma                                                                                              3                 Hertfordshire

 

2.5.  1851 Henry and Catherine Gooch Census

Residence George Street St Albans.  George St becomes Fishpool St

Name                             Status                  Occupation                Age            Birthplace

Henry                             Head                    Gunmaker                   40               Canterbury Kent

Catherine                                                    Stay maker                  42               Ellstree Middlesex

Georgina                                                     Bonnet maker             19               St Albans

Harriot                                                         Bonnet maker            15               St Albans

Emma                                                          Bonnet maker            13               St Albans

Sarah Anne                                                 Scholar                        7                St Albans

Ellstree is on the border of Middlesex and Hertfordshire

 

2.6.  1843 Sarah Ann Gooch Birth

Emma b.21/4/1835 and Sarah Ann b.18/11/1843 were baptised 31/7/1844.

 

2.7.  Marriage Harriet Gooch and Richard Walter Brown

01 Nov 1857 Groom Richard Walter Brown, Bride Harriet Gooch, Old Church, Saint Pancras, London, England

Marriage certificate identifies witnesses as Charles Stevens and Fanny Stevens, Minister CH Andrews and residence as Dextore St or Deutur St or Denton St (Wandsworth?).  Richard Walter Brown occupation Baker.  Father William Brown occupation baker, Father Henry Gooch occupation gun maker.

 

2.8.  1860 Death Catharine Gooch

Deaths Mar 1860 Catherine Gooch District St Albans Volume 3a Page 219

2.9.  1861 Census Henry Gooch Household

Residence Fishpool St St Albans Hertfordshire

Name                             Status                  Occupation                Age            Birthplace

Henry                             Widower             Gunmaker                  49               Canterbury Kent

Georgina                        Dau (unmar)       Bonnet sewer              28              St Albans Herts

Sarah A                          Dau (unmar)       Bonnet sewer              27              St Albans Herts

2.10  1871 Census Gooch Household

Residence 31 Fishpool St St Albans Hertfordshire

Name                             Status                  Occupation                Age            Birthplace

Henry                             Widower              Gunmaker                  58              Canterbury Kent

Catherine                        Dau                      Straw hat maker         37              St Albans Herts

2.11.  1881 Census Gooch Household

Residence 2 Fishpool St St Albans Hertfordshire

Name                             Status                  Occupation                Age            Birthplace

Henry                             Head                   Gunmaker                  72              Canterbury Kent

Catherine                       Dau                     Straw hat maker         45              St Albans Herts

2.12.  1883 Death Henry Gooch

Deaths Mar 1883 Henry Gooch (age 73 ) District St. Albans Volume  3a Page298

Verification required if this is the right Gooch.

2.13.  1891 Gooch Household 1891 Census

Residence 2 Fishpool St St Albans Hertfordshire

Name                             Status                  Occupation                Age            Birthplace

Catherine                      Dau                       Straw hat maker          59              St Albans Herts

It’s odd that Catherine is described as daughter in 1891.  If Henry had died in 1883, why would she?

2.14.  Note Gooch Household details

1. Problem 1  Henry Gooch Gunmaker in the census records is identified as being born in 1816 (1841) census, 1812 (1861 census), 1813 (1871 census), 1809 (1881 census)
2. Problem2.  1841 census identifies children as being Catherine, Georgina, Harriot and Emma.  The 1861 Census identifies a Sarah A as a daughter who is one year younger than Georgina.
3. Interesting the Frederick Brown death certificate identifies that he was born in St Albans Kent.  Confusing his birth details and his grandfathers?
4. Lorraine Tebbutt identifies Henry Gooch as being born 1800 and Catherine Howell being born 1805 and the date of their marriage as 14 Dec 1831.  Lorraine has parents of Henry Gooch as James Gooch (b1751) and Sarah Harvey (b1774) and parents of Catherine Howell as Henry Howell (b?) and Catherine Kaye (b?).

2.15.  Note Catharine Howell

Search for Catharine Howell brings up two in the 1841 census Ancestry.com one born Gloucestorshire the other Shropshire. 
Family Search http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp identifies Catharine Howell and Henry Gooch as marrying in Saint Albans Hertfordshire.  IGS identifies a Catharine Howell from Nottingham.